WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 25, 2018 14:48:05 GMT -5
[image of some wrestling-related guy named Bruce Prichard; no clue who he is] I don't care what the other children say; you will always be my favorite.  ...Dafuq? Addressing/responding to almost none of the remarks I've made towards you isn't exactly a good way of presenting your side of an argument. Neither is randomly posting a picture and making a comment that feels remarkably like you're talking down to me. EDIT: I do this out of love... Good job changing your comment below the picture. Too bad I quoted the original.  |
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Sept 25, 2018 14:48:18 GMT -5
It took me a while, but I can narrow it down to this. ZZYZX If there was anyone who could solve that puzzle it would be someone here. And they did. And while the show would never go that far, only the most advanced Wheel of Fortune player could get them, and most likely not in 10 seconds! You could be the most "advanced" player, but if you don't know your obscure Californian cities, then what? |
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Post by vicgchad07 on Sept 25, 2018 15:06:22 GMT -5
Well, having just proved to billions of people the world over that Bonus Round losses are NEVER "forced" [sic], I'll just sleep good tonight.
You'll worry about that image of Brother Love haunting you all day.
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Sept 25, 2018 15:09:35 GMT -5
So if I'm understanding all this, the only reason we're having this debate is because of the definition of "forcing a loss". You seem to think it's a synonym for "rigging", but the term is mostly used here and other game show communities as a way to make something much more likely to be lost with very little chance of a typical contestant (not a superfan, mind you) winning. Most of us who use that phrase do not mean it as literally "forcing" a loss, which would indeed be rigging.
I think you're just taking the phrase too literally.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:17:48 GMT -5
If there was anyone who could solve that puzzle it would be someone here. And they did. And while the show would never go that far, only the most advanced Wheel of Fortune player could get them, and most likely not in 10 seconds! You could be the most "advanced" player, but if you don't know your obscure Californian cities, then what? I am from California. Plus, I pass by that place every time I go to Vegas. |
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 25, 2018 15:17:58 GMT -5
Well, having just proved to billions of people the world over that Bonus Round losses are NEVER "forced" [ sic], I'll just sleep good tonight. Proven it how, exactly? And to whom? All I'm seeing is someone who's lost an argument and knows they've lost an argument (see my previous post for my reasoning here), yet isn't willing to admit that in public. You'll worry about that image of Brother Love haunting you all day. This? This is nothing. My mother has been in the hospital for the past two days due to her being unable to speak coherently, and during that time she's gone in and out of that along with suffering from a brief period of memory loss, something she's suffered from multiple times to varying degrees since August 2017 (along with strokes, seizures, and tremors, none of which have happened for the past several months or so thankfully). The past year of my life has thus had me having difficulty sleeping for weeks if not months at a time, and sometimes I break down crying at what my mother's gone through, the medical bills we can't even begin to afford to pay, and the thought of her dying or being unable to take care of herself anymore...not to mention that she won't have medical insurance after this month. And you're here telling me that I'll find a picture of Brother Love worrying or haunting? No. Not in the slightest. Go through what I've had to endure for the past 13 months, and then we'll talk. [To mods and other users: sorry for dragging this so far off-track.  ] |
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wheellover65
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Post by wheellover65 on Sept 25, 2018 15:53:06 GMT -5
Well now with that out of the way, let's talk about how they rig the wheel to only land on the smaller amounts and edit out when Pat hits the $5k in the bonus round.
sarcasm |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 16:00:15 GMT -5
Never will the editors edit out the 5k final spin hit. They do it with just Free Play, Lose a Turn, and Bankrupt.
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Prizes
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Post by Prizes on Sept 25, 2018 16:14:24 GMT -5
Forced loss simply means to make the difficulty unfavorable to the player, in a variety of ways. It's not literal, obviously, since some puzzles that would go under this terminology have ultimately been solved by good players. All it is. |
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Post by Bryce L. on Sept 25, 2018 17:38:06 GMT -5
If you don't believe me, then lemme share a little story...
Years ago, Executive Producer Harry Friedman worked on a show (not Wheel of Fortune) for one of the networks (not CBS) for the man who owned the show (not Merv Griffin).
It was nearing the end of the second day of discussions on security measures. Harry wasn't in the business at the time of the Quiz Show Scandals, so he thought this meeting was between men of mutually-acknowledged probity -- "us against them", you could say.
Then, the discussion took this turn...
OWNER: "Let's give the winner of the game a lie-detector test to determine whether he or she had been given the answers. We don't have to test the losers because if they had been given the answers, they would have in fact won the game."
NETWORK VP: "Sounds good to me...but if we did that, then the ACLU would be all over us like a tent." OWNER: "Who cares what that inconsequential lot of radicals--hey, wait a minute... Harry is the only one on our staff who has access to all the game material; let's give him a lie-detector test after the show." NETWORK VP: "No...lie-detector tests take too long; they would extend the studio day and cost the network tons of money." OWNER: "Then let's sequester Harry in a motel, constantly under guard. He can have his meals brought to him. His wife can visit once a day." NETWORK VP: "Sounds good to me...eh-heh, uhhh...nothing personal, Harry."
Whatever happened to "us against them?" Harry thought to himself. This was them against me! ...He was offended. They were discussing him in the third-person AND impugning his integrity in the bargain. After he calmed down, he realized that there was nothing personal involved. The network VP was just doing his job. If anything dishonest did occur, he wanted to be able to testify in front of his bosses, the district attorney, the FCC, and the inevitable Congressional investigative committee that he had taken all possible steps to prevent such dishonesty from happening.
Nice plagiarism there. That exact story, verbatim, is in "The Jeopardy! Book" from 1990, attributed to George Vosburgh (all you've done is change "George" to "Harry").   |
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Sept 25, 2018 17:52:22 GMT -5
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 25, 2018 18:56:16 GMT -5
Nice plagiarism there. That exact story, verbatim, is in "The Jeopardy! Book" from 1990, attributed to George Vosburgh (all you've done is change "George" to "Harry"). Well, that certainly explains why the OP didn't respond when I asked him for specifics on that story (especially since it didn't seem like something Heatter, Quigley, or Cannell would've done). [EDIT 9/26/18: Just to update on my mother - she came home last night and, thankfully, her speech returned to normal this morning.] |
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Post by rwhitakerii on Sept 26, 2018 22:46:28 GMT -5
Here's a good example from last season. Could it have been solved? Of course. Was it going to be solved? Very likely not. Number one: Who calls W and K? Number two: Who refers to those things in tandem? Number three: How many of your average contestants actually know in those ten seconds that more sensible phrases can't be the answer because they have letters that have already been debunked? That's something we see happen just about every other episode. I have a question about what's in the video. Is there not any perceived value in calling letters you know are there on the chance that they may appear in other parts of the puzzle that you don't know?
Sorry to take this thread off it's original course (although I get the feeling that not everyone will be upset by it).
WarioSajak, I'm glad to hear your mother is doing better. I notice that you don't have the "Alumnus" banner, here's hoping that you can get on the show and win enough to take care of those medical bills and then some.
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mechamind
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Post by mechamind on Sept 26, 2018 23:39:35 GMT -5
"Not everyone will be upset"... I'm surprised it wasn't locked instantly.
Really, these "forced" wins and losses are all just a part of show business (emphasis on "business"). That's all there is to it. I'd never call it rigged because of this.
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Sept 27, 2018 7:55:27 GMT -5
I have a question about what's in the video. Is there not any perceived value in calling letters you know are there on the chance that they may appear in other parts of the puzzle that you don't know? It's not worth it. Sure, there are sometimes puzzles where they actually throw in extra I/G or A/D on purpose, but that's pretty rare and not worth risking wasting your picks on those letters. Why do you think almost all the On the Maps these past couple seasons throw in AND? Not to mention that ampersands stopped appearing in bonus puzzles six years ago. It may seem strategic to call letters you know are there, but you're not giving yourself any additional information unless you're lucky. It's strategic for the maingame because you need to keep control by calling correct letters, but in the Bonus Round, all of your picks are numbered, and are the same number whether the letters are right or wrong. |
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 27, 2018 9:59:27 GMT -5
Is there not any perceived value in calling letters you know are there on the chance that they may appear in other parts of the puzzle that you don't know? 10+ years ago (and especially in the five-and-a-vowel era), that'd be a decent strategy, but as Robert pointed out they've long since added traps in some bonus puzzles to bait players into doing this (G and I for a What Are You Doing? puzzle, D and A for any puzzle with AND, etc.). WarioSajak, I'm glad to hear your mother is doing better. Thank you. I notice that you don't have the "Alumnus" banner, here's hoping that you can get on the show and win enough to take care of those medical bills and then some. While that'd be nice and something I'd never stop thanking Harry for, there's two issues: 1) I wouldn't be able to pay my way to and from Culver City to be on the show, and 2) I don't think I'd be a good Wheel contestant, partly because I'm not really good at solving puzzles. Even then, there's the fact that my personality pretty much goes directly against what the show expects of its players - I'd snark almost constantly about anything I don't like about the show, not force a smile on my face at all times, and be honest about my feelings ("You had some bad luck out there on the Wheel, but we'll give you a thousand dollars just for being here. Did you have fun?" "Not really, no."). The show would have to do a ton of editing to make me come across as being like most contestants. |
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Sept 27, 2018 13:58:55 GMT -5
Is there not any perceived value in calling letters you know are there on the chance that they may appear in other parts of the puzzle that you don't know? 10+ years ago (and especially in the five-and-a-vowel era), that'd be a decent strategy, but as Robert pointed out they've long since added traps in some bonus puzzles to bait players into doing this (G and I for a What Are You Doing? puzzle, D and A for any puzzle with AND, etc.). And not just traps, but also words that can look like other words - words that usually have other RSTLNE letters elsewhere. The video I posted is a textbook example. Combined with the AND trap, things went exactly how the producers wanted it to. The episode that reran this past Saturday also had a good example of a manipulative bonus puzzle (that backfired). This was the puzzle with RSTLNE: _ R E S _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (FOOD & DRINK) There's only one legit word that works for the top, especially given the category: FRESH. Some might waste two of their consonants on the F and H, which do not appear in the bottom word at all. This would mean they would only have one consonant and one vowel to help with the bottom word. The only other unique vowel is A. Let's say someone calls FHCA, which would lead to this... F R E S H _ A _ A _ A At first glance, it looks like it could be FRESH BANANA, but it can't be because there are no N's, but do contestants know that in the heat of the moment? Not that many of them. I guarantee you that if the bottom word had just the A's, there would be about a 50% chance of someone guessing BANANA, and the producers may have been banking on this, too. Thankfully, contestant Katie didn't run into either problem, as her picks of PCDA pretty much handed her the answer FRESH PAPAYA for an effortless win. "Not everyone will be upset"... I'm surprised it wasn't locked instantly. Nah, the first page and a half of this thread is the best entertainment I've experienced all week.  |
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Sept 27, 2018 20:08:08 GMT -5
I just remembered another trap - putting a standalone A in front just to trick players into calling it, only for it to be the only instance in the puzzle (like A GULF or A SOPHOMORE). "Not everyone will be upset"... I'm surprised it wasn't locked instantly. Nah, the first page and a half of this thread is the best entertainment I've experienced all week. Honestly...I can't say I disagree. |
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Post by rwhitakerii on Sept 28, 2018 0:20:35 GMT -5
I don't know how to do multiple quotes so I'll just separate my replies.
Thank you all for your insights on calling known bonus round letters. It's going to be a hard habit for me to break but I'll work on it.
Wario, I laughed out loud reading why you think they wouldn't pick you. I had a final audition in 2015 and didn't make it and I honestly worry that I'll never get the letter in the mail no matter how many times they may let me audition because I don't naturally have the personality traits they look for. I can be snarky at times but can control that. My real problem is that I'm a generally laid back and mellow guy and I know that's not what they want.
I was actually wondering the same thing about why the thread wasn't locked. I was telling my wife last night about this thread and how normally I would have thought it would be shut down quick, fast, and in a hurry. Now I understand. Thanks again to both of you.
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Post by cygnusx1jg on Oct 8, 2018 10:54:43 GMT -5
Unless the contestant knows the puzzle after getting their free letters, I think we can all agree that the following letters will NEVER be chosen: J,Q,V,X and Z. Hence, it seems fishy when any of these letters are in the final puzzle.
Also, the adjectives they sometimes use don't exactly fit the noun. The words in the puzzle should at least make sense together, but sometimes seem very obscure.
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