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Post by shieldsysolver100 on Apr 2, 2012 7:01:28 GMT -5
Why is the current version of Wheel looked down upon with disdain by a lot of users? Ever since I've come here, I've seen a lot of criticism about the theme weeks, Prize Puzzles, $1,000,000 Wedge etc. I'm not saying that I hate this site, I just think that the current version gets a lot of criticism, some of which I think is unjustified and unwarranted.
So, why is there criticism of the current version?
(P.S. Please do not consider this a personal attack, I've already been banned from one forum-based website, for supposedly personally attacking another user, and besides I'm just curious is all.)
(P.P.S, all of the original paragraph, comes from myself, a user who has lived all of his life in Australia, and has only gotten into American Wheel around Season 26 through Youtube/Dailymotion etc, so I'm not sure what my opinion counts for)
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tenpoundhammer
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Post by tenpoundhammer on Apr 2, 2012 15:00:04 GMT -5
Some of us are just a lot more passionate about a quality product.
I just don't let the small stuff bother me. Sure, the Prize Puzzle could use more variety, and some of the contestants are a bit dim, but overall, I don't think anything is "bad" enough to detract from my overall enjoyment.
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Apr 2, 2012 16:14:24 GMT -5
Why is the current version of Wheel looked down upon with disdain by a lot of users? There's several reasons. TPH already mentioned the desire for quality, which Wheel seems eager to not put out. The themed weeks get criticized because the puzzles are forced to fit that theme -- and a lot of the time end up disjointed or otherwise something that Google doesn't turn up. Same goes for the Trip Puzzle -- namely, the fact it only offers trips means the writers are "handcuffed". We have a topic about how those get just plain terrible. They're usually overly-specific, contrived, or corporate phraseology (like with the Sandals Weeks this season). My personal "Yeah, I'm done." moment was their dub-fest last season/Summer, robbing everybody out of Charlie's final eight weeks because they think we're goldfish and thinking anybody except Jim was sub-par to the point of "NOT FOR RERUN" unless the dubbing came back (or they just plain didn't want to pay royalties). [Edited 9/25/13 to fix link to thread #3210. It was mistakenly still pointing to WOFL instead of BAV.]
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whammy007
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Post by whammy007 on Apr 2, 2012 18:58:33 GMT -5
The problem for me, besides what the others have said, is that solid heads-up play is being forced out by the glut of gimmicks. A great player could solve the majority of puzzles in the show for decent (if unspectacular) amounts of money and still be beat out by a less-skilled player who got lucky enough to win the Kia in the Trip Round and stumbled backwards into a Speed-Up solve. If you watch some early 1990s episodes, without all the extra trimmings, you see a lot bigger emphasis on smart play, "perfect" (mistake-free) rounds, and finesse spinning for big cash values as opposed to just hauling off and hoping to hit the current round's specialty wedge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2012 20:07:51 GMT -5
They dubbed over Charlie supposedly because "it would've been too sad to hear his voice so close to his death", apparently thinking that we believe that they still tape entirely in airing order. They then dubbed Jim over the other guest announcers to "establish" him-although he already was pretty much established on the show during the tryout period-and from April 18, 2011 onwards (I remember reading somewhere that the decision to hire him for permanent was made back in March of that year).
It's like what Pat said on Sony Rewards about the most skilled players not always being the top winners being the reason why the concept of returning players was retired (although that's not a very good defense of why returning champions was removed). Then again, I can see that a possible reason we don't have returning champions anymore is because it probably wouldn't work with all the stuff that's been added to the show (e.g. the $100,000 Bonus cash and later the Million-Dollar Wedge, 1/2 Car, keeping all Bonus prizes in play all week, etc.)
As for the Trip Puzzle, don't get me started on how blatant some of them can be (e.g. GLEAMING WHITE SAND BEACH, TOTALLY AWESOME WATER PARK, WHERE DO I PICK UP MY SKI-LIFT TICKETS?, among various others).
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Apr 2, 2012 22:31:47 GMT -5
(P.P.S, all of the original paragraph, comes from myself, a user who has lived all of his life in Australia, and has only gotten into American Wheel around Season 26 through Youtube/Dailymotion etc, so I'm not sure what my opinion counts for) That explains it right there. A lot of us grew up with the show in its "golden era", or the period in which the show was most enjoyable to us (for the record, I consider the golden era of Wheel 1987-2002). Back then, it was so simplistic. People would simply spin, solve, and buy vowels. The Wheel was just as simple. Lots of dollar amounts, a Bankrupt or two, a Lose a Turn, and just a Free Spin and some prizes. Now, the show has started to rely on gimmicks regularly (as one person on the internet put it, the Wheel is now a "rotating billboard") to the point where it affects the puzzles. We all miss when the puzzles were just straightforward, simple things and phrases and not a gramatically correct sentence made solely to fit, for example, "Spa Fantasy" week tacked on as the first Toss Up (I'LL BE IN THE SAUNA). Because of all these gimmicks, the show is losing its "charm". Not to mention that the atmosphere in the Sony Pictures Studios has drastically changed over the years (watch a non-road show episode from around 1998, then one from anywhere between 2008 and now, might I recommend 6/6/2011 if you can find it). It's just something that happens with a lot of TV shows and networks. Things change and take away the show's charm. That's not to say that all the current "gimmicks" are bad, but they've taken away so much of the straightforward gameplay that made Wheel enjoyable for so many people. Now, people are going "What does that Free Play space do?" "Wait...he spun and called an A. I thought you had to buy the vowels." "He got the $1 million card. Does he actually win $1 million?" "Why does that $1,000 space have a question mark on it?" "How do you win half of a Kia?" I'd take the time to watch an episode from around 1995 and see just how different things were. Just to clear things up, I don't hate the current show at all. Otherwise, I wouldn't be as active of a member as I am, and I still make sure I watch the show every night, because Wheel is still a great show, even if its reputation has dampered over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 23:36:53 GMT -5
The show is constantly evolving and yes I would agree it feels like every prize has a sponsor. Its getting to the point where I'm thinking Pat's going to begin each round by saying "And this round is sponsored by..." But the show is making a ton of cash by all these sponsors because of the mass audience. But Wheel continues to be the number 1 show in its time slot in so many markets and is still the number 1 show in syndication. I'm sure the producers care about viewer feedback but as long as they're bringing in mass amounts of cash and have a big lead while in the top spot then they'll keep up what they're doing. But I think a lot us continue to love the show despite having some pet peeves yet I also think while we may be a little ticked at the show in its existing state it won't stop evolving that in a few years from now we'll be thinking how much we missed the shows from these years. I remember thinking how I disliked the amount of evolution in the early-mid 2000s, now I'm missing those shows.
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Apr 14, 2012 10:19:05 GMT -5
...Oh, crap, I feel a rant...... But the show is making a ton of cash by all these sponsors because of the mass audience. Doubtful. The only sponsors the majority of people would care about, and the only ones that could give the show some actual variety, are relegated to the Gift Tag and closed-captioning plugs. But Wheel continues to be the number 1 show in its time slot in so many markets and is still the number 1 show in syndication. I'm sure the producers care about viewer feedback but as long as they're bringing in mass amounts of cash and have a big lead while in the top spot then they'll keep up what they're doing. Mr. Hall, a member here who IIRC does graphic design for the show, said the same thing. Problem is, quite a few aspects have dropped in quality since about 1998: Contestant and audience quality have gone down quite a lot -- audiences seem to be bored and unresponsive, while contestants appear to have had too much coffee. Puzzle quality has dropped sharply since instituting the daily Trip Puzzle due to handcuffing the writers to themed weeks and said Trip Puzzle (the Bonus Round tends to be worse). Prize quality has fallen considerably in the past decade. Set quality has fallen as well, since Wheel thinks it's necessary to have a cold, dark, unwelcoming set whose only decorations are neon strips and video screens; pastels aren't evil. And they've gone to the editing room so many times, I've lost count -- editing out spontaneous moments, "null" cycles, bad Final Spins, a Bonus Round that Pat gave away the answer to, etc. But yeah, you know, they're #1 and etc. so they'll keep making a sub-par program. But I think a lot us continue to love the show despite having some pet peeves yet I also think while we may be a little ticked at the show in its existing state it won't stop evolving that in a few years from now we'll be thinking how much we missed the shows from these years. So you basically admit that the show's going to get worse and worse? Also, there needed to be some punctuation in there... There's evolution in two ways. Wheel was evolving in a positive manner up until non-car/cash prizes were kicked out of the Bonus Round and returning champions were discarded in favor of Friday Finals (basically making each week self-contained). And when they ousted that...well, at that point, it kind of lost its luster. They only reason they removed returning players wasn't what Pat said about good solvers/lousy solvers (which is clearly BS anyway because it's possible regardless and the Trip Puzzle only makes things worse) -- it was so they wouldn't be "handcuffed" to actually having an order to their tapings. Things got progressively more stale until Charlie died, at which point the show disrespected him and his fans by growing a dubbing fetish. Quite frankly, I'm surprised Friedman hasn't called WOFL a bunch of telephone pole screamers by this point. And as Harry himself basically pointed out, the only reason he replaced Nancy Jones in the first place is because he was friends with the CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment. He replaced Nancy so Sony could move the show in a different direction, away from the tired, dated feel they got under Jones' watch...and they got a stale, uncaring show instead. Congrats.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 16:50:48 GMT -5
Contestant and audience quality have gone down quite a lot -- audiences seem to be bored and unresponsive, while contestants appear to have had too much coffee. Puzzle quality has dropped sharply since instituting the daily Trip Puzzle due to handcuffing the writers to themed weeks and said Trip Puzzle (the Bonus Round tends to be worse). Prize quality has fallen considerably in the past decade. Set quality has fallen as well, since Wheel thinks it's necessary to have a cold, dark, unwelcoming set whose only decorations are neon strips and video screens; pastels aren't evil. Ever since the show switched to blue/green neon for the set, the appearance of the show has become dull and boring. The fact that the neon on the set is all either blue, green, or purple, with the rest of it being giant video screens makes it look cheap. As for the audience, on most episodes prior to Season 8 (particularly during the shopping era), it was common to hear the audience cheer the contestants during Wheel spins, and an appropriate reaction when it landed on notable spots (such as the top dollar value, or Bankrupt if the contestant had a lot of money in his/her bank). As for limiting the prize offerings, that may be because trips and cars are what contestants usually want, but I'm sure there's various other things that could be offered that some contestants might find useful. The only reason they removed returning players wasn't what Pat said about good solvers/lousy solvers (which is clearly BS anyway because it's possible regardless and the Trip Puzzle only makes things worse) -- it was so they wouldn't be "handcuffed" to actually having an order to their tapings. ...And yet they've tired so hard to make it look like they still tape entirely in airing order (especially when they dubbed over Charlie following his death), yet sometimes the ruse is given away (such as Pat saying that a $100,000 win occurred recently). Things got progressively more stale until Charlie died, at which point the show disrespected him and his fans by growing a dubbing fetish. Totally agree with this one. Instead of admitting that they tape out of order and that Charlie had already announced another eight weeks worth of shows that had yet to air, the show about-faced and dubbed over all those weeks, claiming that "it would've been too sad to hear Charlie's voice so close to his death". I can imagine that they probably told Jim Thornton that "we just announced your hiring to the public, and we want to establish you on the show, so we need you to dub over the other guest announcers." While that may be more understandable than the "too sad to hear Charlie so close to his death" claim, but like I said, Jim was already pretty much established during his tryout period. Harry replaced Nancy so Sony could move the show in a different direction, away from the tired, dated feel they got under Jones' watch...and they got a stale, uncaring show instead. Congrats. Ironic that the show went from being (allegedly) "tired and dated" to dull and boring during the past decade and a half. What's also ironic is that his bio page on the show's website says that “He keeps ahead of the curve with innovative game elements, theme weeks and the latest technology.” While that may be so, the theme weeks and Trip Puzzles handcuff the puzzle writers into making puzzles that are so blatant and contrived, it's not even funny. The "innovative game elements" such as the 1/2 Kia and the $100,000 and $1,000,000 Bonus Prizes have put a bit of a strain on the show's budget, forcing them to come up with increasingly difficult Bonus puzzles. BTW, seriously, I don't know what the show was thinking in regards to the implementation of Vanna for a "Day". Nothing against Katie Cantrell's performance, but two Rounds + car pose after the Speed-Up ≠ Day.
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Apr 14, 2012 23:56:50 GMT -5
...And yet they've tired so hard to make it look like they still tape entirely in airing order (especially when they dubbed over Charlie following his death), yet sometimes the ruse is given away (such as Pat saying that a $100,000 win occurred recently). The addition of the 1/2 Kia tags this season, plus the restructuring of the gameplay order (Trip Puzzle is now relegated to Round 3), made things worse. As for Charlie, I don't doubt that the show respected him -- a few years back, they renewed his contract before the show itself was renewed. The problem is that I just don't think they respected him enough. Ironic that the show went from being (allegedly) "tired and dated" to dull and boring during the past decade and a half. The quote there was said by Harry, who was quoting Alan Levine (then-CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment). Other than the puzzle board, which really needed to go to monitors, the show was comfort food under Nancy's watch...which may have been Sony's "problem". (I still think BOMBASTIC had something to do with it, though.) the theme weeks and Trip Puzzles handcuff the puzzle writers into making puzzles that are so blatant and contrived, it's not even funny. As I said. When you have What Are You Doing? on almost every episode, there's a problem. The show has over 30 categories, and most of them don't see face time. On the other hand, adding new amounts to the Bonus Wheel was a good change, I think -- $25,000 didn't seem to be cutting it anymore after Millionaire debuted. As for Vanna for a "Day", the recap topic here makes no mention of the fact that the show lied. As you said, two rounds mid-show ≠ any definition of "day" I'm aware of, and Katie got soundly ripped-off. The only explanation I can think of is that, when Wheel said "Vanna for a Day", they meant "being treated like Vanna for a calendar day". Which is lame.
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Post by StrangerCoug on Apr 15, 2012 11:48:42 GMT -5
Notice how simple yet enjoyable the Big Month of Cash was? That, I feel, was Wheel of Fortune plain and simple without anything getting in the way. I agree with not only MarioGS's statement about the "golden era", but also its open-endedness—I end it earlier, around the mid-1990's. (The multi-template fan in me wants to put it at when the wheel was changed to a single template, but that's nowhere near the final nail in the coffin.)
Wheel of Fortune, I feel, needs to be more like Jeopardy!. (I disagree with what seems to be the majority opinion that the current J! set is crap—I like it. It's a nice, modern, eye-pleasing set.) When they change it up, they still try to keep the basic feel the same. Watch the Trebek premiere, then watch a current episode—the latter is more exciting and more interesting, and not just because of the doubled dollar values.
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WarioSajak
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Post by WarioSajak on Apr 16, 2012 0:17:22 GMT -5
Regarding a personal "golden era" of Wheel, mine is 1973-95, through the end of Season 12. The "silver era" would probably be Seasons 13 to early 19, ending with the debut of the Bonus Wheel, with the "modern era" afterward. My interest decreases slowly from Season 13 until Charlie's death, at which point I want little (if anything) to do with the modern era. Watch the Trebek premiere, then watch a current episode—the latter is more exciting and more interesting, and not just because of the doubled dollar values. I don't think the premiere (or either pilot) is a good example due to all the explanations* -- had you said late Season 1 or Season 2 (after the ring-in rule changed), I wouldn't argue. (*Or was that your point?)
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Post by StrangerCoug on Apr 16, 2012 5:56:37 GMT -5
Well, unless you honestly liked Alex going through the rules spiel... I find the game pretty easy to follow without it.
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