WooWho
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Post by WooWho on Mar 14, 2016 10:37:17 GMT -5
In this installment of the Evaluation series, we look at a short-lived token that was a good idea on paper...but was it flawed in its execution?  Image courtesy MarioGS .
HOW IT WORKED:- The Double Play was placed on the wheel starting in Round 2, and was claimed in the same manner as the Free Spin token.
- Once claimed, a player could hand in the Double Play token on any turn before spinning the wheel. Whatever amount they landed on was doubled to make the per-consonant value for that spin only.
- The Double Play was wasted if the spin on which it was used landed on a penalty wedge.
WHAT WE KNOW:- The Double Play debuted in 1995 and lasted just under a year.
- According to the official rules, if a Double Play spin landed on a prize or Free Spin, the player could either take the token back or apply it to their next spin.
- According to one recollection, the Double Play DID affect the $10,000 wedge.
- Much like the Free Spin token, the Double Play was not lost to Bankrupt while in a contestant's possession (unless, as stated above, the spin on which it was used landed on Bankrupt).
WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW:- Would it be a good idea to bring back the Double Play now? Why or why not? (And don't say 'yes' just because you liked it; I'm looking for substantive reasoning.)
- Was there anything wrong with how it worked? How would you have made it work?
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lousan92
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Post by lousan92 on Mar 14, 2016 11:11:25 GMT -5
Would it be a good idea to bring back the Double Play now? Why or why not? (And don't say 'yes' just because you liked it; I'm looking for substantive reasoning.)
As you know, currently we have something similar, the Wild Card. However, it's hardly ever used in the maingame, I don't know if it's because players don't know how to use it or because they really want an extra consonant in the Bonus Round. What if Wild Card coexisted with Double Play? In my opinion, there would happen two things:
- If players used Double Play successfully (not landing on Bankrupt or Lose a Turn, in Free Play I would duplicate the $500 value if players pick a consonant), in some way they would be having the same bonus that they would have if they used the Wild Card after spinning.
- What about combining the effects of Double Play and Wild Card? Imagine that you have Double Play and Wild Card. You use the Double Play and you land on $700. OK, consonants would award $1,400. You call a correct consonant... I would make the Wild Card usable with that duplicated amount, so if you use the Wild Card you would play another time for $1,400. As I've said many times, there isn't such a big difference on using the Wild Card on $500 or $900, that's why players only use it on the top value. Applying the bonus of Double Play for the Wild Card would be a great opportunity to encourage players to use it on the maingame.
I would have both tokens. They are so similar, but Double Play is easier to use and maybe to understand, and could complement the maingame use of the other token in a powerful way. But wait, we are in budget mode...
Was there anything wrong with how it worked? How would you have made it work?
It was a good idea, the only problem about Double Play was its randomness. There wasn't any strategy around it: you could use it whenever you wanted (that's why a lot of players used it just after picking it up). In my opinion, its more effective use would have been at the beggining of a round, when there were many multiples in the puzzle (or when I knew the puzzle and I saw that there were repeated letters).
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WooWho
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Post by WooWho on Mar 14, 2016 11:38:48 GMT -5
^You know, you make a really good point. I hadn't thought about the existence of the Wild Card...which could make things so much more interesting if Double Play was revived. As you brought up, the wheel has gotten really bland as far as variety in cash wedges is concerned, and having even one spin worth at least $1,000 that isn't a Mystery, Express, or Final Spin-induced-inflation could make for potentially bigger average payouts.
That would, however, rely on a single player to pick up both tokens, which--as we've seen with the 1/2 Car--is not an easy thing to do.
But say someone manages to do it. Could you trust that person to remember that they can use them in combination? There's already a ton of cardboard on the wheel as it is, and so many different rules to remember for each thing.
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lousan92
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Post by lousan92 on Mar 14, 2016 11:53:08 GMT -5
But say someone manages to do it. Could you trust that person to remember that they can use them in combination? There's already a ton of cardboard on the wheel as it is, and so many different rules to remember for each thing. Currently, we only have the Wild Card as something to take into account while playing. The rest of cardboard are prizes and players don't have to care about them until they solve the puzzle (even the Million Dollar wedge, you won't use it unless you get to the Bonus Round). I think that adding another token to use won't complicate the game so much (trust me, in La Ruleta there are four usable wedges, and most of the players manage to know when it's good to use them). |
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MarioGS
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Post by MarioGS on Mar 14, 2016 15:33:44 GMT -5
Would it be a good idea to bring back the Double Play now? Why or why not?
Although I love Double Play, I would have to say it wouldn't be as welcome nowadays. There are way too many other extras on the Wheel, so it might be a tad awkward when a player lands on one and Pat constantly has to explain, "You still get just one 1/2 Car tag, but you get $1,000 for each letter". Plus, there are several other gimmicks that would raise questions:
Free Play: Are consonants worth $1,000 if chosen assuming they can still call a free vowel? More incentive to call a consonant that would be wasted if a vowel was picked.
Mystery: If they double the $1,000 face value, then should they double the $10,000 if found? Three T's and taking $6,000 in place of a risk of $10,000 or Bankrupt seems like a no-brainer versus a risk of finding $20,000.
Express: If they hop on, would EVERY consonant be worth $2,000? Round 3 is already high stakes as it is, but it might be awkward for Pat to have to explain that the consonant they call when landing on the wedge is $2,000, but if they hop on, they'll be worth $2,000.
Wild Card: If they hit $3,500 after using the Double Play and they have a Wild Card, would the producers be okay with letting the contestant use it for another consonant worth $7,000?
Million Dollar Wedge: A chance to play the Bonus Round for TWO million dollars if you're really, REALLY lucky? Imagine how the general public who thinks "solving with the MDW earns you the million" would react to seeing someone use Double Play before landing on it.
And don't forget, the Wheel had a lot of variety in its dollar amounts back then. Today, not so much. Nearly every doubled spin would be $1,000-$1,400. Hardly any variety there. There are recollections of DP being used before landing on the yellow $1,000 and $1,500.
Was there anything wrong with how it worked? How would you have made it work?
Not at all. It seemed like a no-brainer: save it for when you know there's a big multiple coming up or you think you can hit a big amount. Unfortunately, in many of the uses of Double Play in episodes that circulate, contestants would either use it immediately after picking it up or not use it at all.
I probably would have changed what it did when prizes were hit. It seems kind of odd that it doubled the $10K (supposedly) but not other prizes. I probably would have made it award double the Prize's value.
If DP were around today, I would utilize it pretty much the same way as I do in the games I host here: It awards $500 when picked up, like the Wild Card, it doubles the value under cardboard (except the MDW) but does not change the cardboard's reward, it doubles both the $1,000 and $10,000 on Mystery, the initial Express letter but not the letters called on the "ride", consonants on Free Play would be $1,000 with no change for calling vowels or solving, and no effect on the MDW, in which case it would be returned, and Wild Cards can be used for a doubled amount.
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Post by gameshowguy2000 on Mar 16, 2016 17:30:05 GMT -5
Wouldn't hurt if the player could play for $2,000,000, if the Double Play were to be used with the MDW, or even TWO extra consonants in the BR (not stated, but after reading the previous post, that thought came to me).
And imagine if they were to win $2M...they'd be right up there with Ken Jennings, Brad Rutter, and Kevin Olmstead as part of the winningest game show contestants...or they could end up like Dan Avila.
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WooWho
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Post by WooWho on Sept 20, 2016 23:49:13 GMT -5
Would it be a good idea to bring back the Double Play now? Why or why not?Although I love Double Play, I would have to say it wouldn't be as welcome nowadays. There are way too many other extras on the Wheel, so it might be a tad awkward when a player lands on one and Pat constantly has to explain, "You still get just one 1/2 Car tag, but you get $1,000 for each letter". Plus, there are several other gimmicks that would raise questions: (snip) Million Dollar Wedge: A chance to play the Bonus Round for TWO million dollars if you're really, REALLY lucky? Imagine how the general public who thinks "solving with the MDW earns you the million" would react to seeing someone use Double Play before landing on it. This alone convinced me that Double Play is better off dead! |
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Post by tlc38tlc38 on Oct 12, 2016 16:16:45 GMT -5
At the time it was a good idea however it would never work with the current format. I still like the token, though.
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Post by gameshowfandanny on Mar 7, 2020 20:50:04 GMT -5
WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW:
"Would it be a good idea to bring back the Double Play now? Why or why not? (And don't say 'yes' just because you liked it; I'm looking for substantive reasoning.)"
I think they should because it gives the opportunity to play for double the amount they land on, though if the contestant landed on the Million Dollar Wedge, I think they should give the Double Play back because since the contestant uses it before they spin, there is a really low chance of the $2,000,000 ever being won.
"Was there anything wrong with how it worked? How would you have made it work?"
I think it should be like the Wild Card, where you use it after a spin for the doubled amount of the current spin because when they had the Double Play, a lot of contestants would use it right after they picked it up. I think if it returned to the show, it would be vulnerable to Bankrupt because the Wild Card is.
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Post by woffan9821 on Jun 20, 2022 2:13:42 GMT -5
As a person who's now written 50 recaps for Season 13 over the past week or so, I think I've got enough of a sample size to say this: Wow, what a boring token. I understand the appeal of the token: in theory, doubling the value of the next spin should increase the suspense, making a contestant and the audience more focused on what the wheel lands on next. In reality, it sure existed. Let's assume the best-case scenario. Here's wheelgenius 's bare Round 4 layout:  I'm going to make a bold statement here: the only three things that would make me feel more excited, instead of "oh, Double Play certainly is a thing that existed" are the $5,000, the $1,500, and the $10,000 if it was on the wheel. Even $900 doubling should be good on paper, but in reality, it's just alright unless there's a massive multiple on the board. Anecdotally, out of the 50 episodes I've recapped, 17 never had the Double Play picked up. Another 8 had someone pick up the Double Play, but not use it. Out of the 25 times it was used, three were washes due to not hitting a cash wedge (one Bankrupt, one LAT, one Surprise hit that ended in a dud, and play never got back to the contestant). Of the other 22 cases, here are a couple of stats:  Of course, there is going to be a little bit of bias, since the episodes with a big Double Play hit (including the one with the OREO) are more likely to be recapped, but even out of these, the best case scenario is a triple on $800 for $4,800, which could still be a nice chunk of change. In reality, here's the distribution of all outcomes I've recapped with the Double Play:  Getting a bonus $1,050 off of one spin is nice, but it's not really powerful enough to justify the token's existence. As described before, there was a kind of "use it or lose it" mentality. Most of the uses were either right away, or as a late call in Round 3 or an early call in Round 4, because it became useless the moment the final spin bells chimed. (Once again, this is not a full analysis of every episode, but it's over a fourth of the season.) To really justify using the token well, one would either have to keep track of their spin rotation and figure out when they'd land on the TDV or another four-digit amount, or identify a large multiple before calling it, and preserve your turn until you can capitalize. The former is discouraged when Wheel is supposed to be random and one isn't supposed to game the system, while the latter is writer-dependent, and nowadays with R4+ always being two lines, the chances of a big multiple are slim to none. The Wild Card's just a better application of the idea. Instead of the Double Play's suspense really only lasting a spin before an okay amount, the Wild Card more extends the excitement of landing on the TDV by making it feel larger, and spending more time talking about big money. In addition, the Wild Card having a use after the game ends incentivizes the contestant to not just burn the token right away. I wouldn't even want the Double Play to be brought back today because there isn't really any more excitement between doubling $500 or $900, and I'd have to assume that all special wedges would be ignored because they aren't plain cash wedges. The only other way to implement the Double Play would add an extra page and a half to the rule book going over all the exceptions with every non-cash wedge. If Free Play got retired pretty much due to it being too complex, Double Play isn't going to fare much better. |
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germanname1990
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Post by germanname1990 on Jun 20, 2022 4:16:20 GMT -5
The Double Play had potential, and there were some exciting moments such as it doubling the $10,000 cash prize, but I believe its teething troubles were what ultimately did it in. This was also going on at a time where the staff had really begun to experimenting with ideas for the Wheel itself (with the Surprise and the $10,000 prize being prior examples), something which was actually very new at the time considering how long the syndicated version was on by that point. So not everyone may have been ready for it. Now considering other elements that were introduced since then have had a long life such as the Jackpot, Mystery Wedges, and the Wild Card, I don't think it would be a bad idea if the Double Play had another chance even though the Wild Card has indeed been a worthy successor to it (despite the Wild Card having some teething troubles of its own during its first season), but I would make some changes to it.
First, just like pretty much every element in use now, it can be lost to a Bankrupt, but it will also have a $500 face value if picked up.
Second, considering that every liftable barring the Million Dollar Wedge has had a $500 face value since Season 30, double just the face value up to $1000.
Three, if you also have the Wild Card, call another letter for the doubled value.
Four, which is perhaps the most daring part of all this, make winning $2,000,000 in the Bonus Round a possibility.
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Post by jarvisabrodie89 on Jun 20, 2022 15:40:24 GMT -5
I barely watched Wheel of Fortune during much of the 13th Season because my family and I moved around a lot during that time. Plus, we were barely able to watch our local affiliate of KAIT-TV (which was only an ABC Affiliate until the mid-2010s). However, when I got to see the Double Play in action on episodes that were posted online, I thought it was a bit confusing to say the least. Nevertheless, I don't think bringing back the Double Play would beneficial at this point, especially now that we have the Wild Card which works just about the same way but with a couple of advantages over the Double Play. Needless to say, the way I saw the Wild Card, I thought the rules for that made more sense and less confusing than the Double Play.
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